Navigating the Tween Years | dare to be more podcast with Joanne Sharpe

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Navigating the Tween Years.

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Welcome to Dare to Be More, the podcast

from MLC School in Burwood, Sydney.

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Today we're exploring the complex

and often emotional years between

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childhood and adolescence with

Joanne Sharp, the deputy head

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of junior school for wellbeing.

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Discover how girls are supported as

they navigate friendship changes,

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growing independence, digital

pressures, emotional ups and downs,

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and the need to feel secure while

also stretching into what comes next.

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You'll hear practical insights and

programs such as You Are Strong, the

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role of parents as a coach on the side,

and how MLC School helps girls build

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self-awareness, resilience, and belonging.

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I'm your co-host Anthony Pearl.

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Let's get into today's conversation.

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Well, hello everyone, and welcome to

another episode of Dare to Be More.

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And I've got Joanne with me today.

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Welcome, Joanne.

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Joanne Sharpe: And thanks, Anthony.

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It's nice to be here again.

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Anthony: And for those who don't know you,

Joanne, why don't you introduce yourself?

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Joanne Sharpe: My name's Joanne Sharp,

and I work in the junior school at MLC,

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and I am one of the deputies, and my

role oversees wellbeing of the students.

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Anthony: Fantastic.

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Well, we're going to talk about

a particular group of students,

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or a particular age group of

students today, the tweens.

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I, I love that terminology, although it

may be a little bit harder to deal with.

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Why don't you start by sort

of defining the tweens?

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Joanne Sharpe: The tweens is just that

time before the teenage years, the

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typical teenage years starting at 13.

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So tweens usually is defined by ages

about 9 to 12 as girls are growing up

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and they're becoming more conscious

of themselves and others, their

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brain development's changing, their

hormones are changing, but they're

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not quite at those teenage years yet.

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Anthony: Yeah, it is a

difficult period, isn't it?

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I mean, I think that's what you, you know,

as parents you start to realize that.

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But, you know, what is it that parents

firstly need to know coming into that,

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with kids coming into that age group?

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Joanne Sharpe: I like to think

of it as, uh, the in-between.

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You know, the tweens being in between, uh,

the young childhood and the teenage years.

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And things that parents will notice,

there can be rapid physical changes.

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That's becoming earlier and

earlier as time goes on.

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Emotional swings, particularly

as hormones set in.

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There's the wish for emerging independence

from family and adults, and can be

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challenging in their questioning, you

know, of the world and why things are, and

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sometimes that's challenging for parents.

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Anthony: Yeah.

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It does definitely change

the relationship, doesn't it?

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Because they start building more

confidence and trying to cope with the

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changes in their own, in their own bodies.

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It does change the relationships between,

firstly between the kids and the parents.

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Joanne Sharpe: Yes.

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I think as children are wanting more

independence, they still are childlike

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and they want love and reassurance,

and to know that those people who,

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their families who love them are

going to be there no matter what.

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I think that sense of security's

still really important, despite the

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fact that they seemingly are trying

to, you know, move away from that.

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They actually still really crave it.

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Mm-hmm.

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Anthony: Yeah.

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It's funny, isn't it?

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When you reflect on, on kids, you know,

everyone tells you first of all you've

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got to get through the terrible twos,

and they don't tell you about the-

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that that extends into the threes and

then, you know, eventually you get to

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this period of time and the tweens,

and it is an awkward period of time.

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And I guess the start, you know, we talk

about the relationship between the, the

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kids and the parents, but what about

the kids between other kids as well?

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Joanne Sharpe: I think most of the

things that we see in regards to

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social interactions is that there's a

difference between some children are

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still very much in that childlike moment,

black and white, things are pretty

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straightforward and simple, and others

are starting to develop into that sort

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of more heading towards teenage years

where, uh, things are more complicated.

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There's all these areas

of gray in relationships.

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And so there can be a difference in the

way that students approach situations or

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issues or sorting things out, even simple

things like what do they play today.

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Their, their, their differences can become

more obvious and can change friendships

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as well as change dynamics between friends

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Anthony: Yeah, because it really is about

that the interest that they have can shift

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quite dramatically and quickly, can't it?

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And i- when you've got some that may be

a little bit slower in developing and,

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and/or some that may be just slightly

younger, 'cause I imagine in any given

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year there is a reasonable gap, what is

it, about nine months that, that might be

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a gap between the ages of kids in there.

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So that can have an

impact as well, can't it?

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Joanne Sharpe: Yes.

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And I think the age gap can be up to,

you know, 18 months actually, depending

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on what time of the year you're born,

and then if your ch- parents choose

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to send you as you're turning five

or potentially as you're turning six.

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So there, there can be quite a bit

of difference there just in that, um,

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side of the influence of development.

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And then there's just the, you

know, the natural ways that children

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develop differently between them.

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But certainly some are maturing at a

greater rate than others, and there's

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nothing wrong with that, it's just the

way each person is unique and individual.

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But it is something that we

really try to be aware of and to

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consciously teach about how to

navigate through friendship changes.

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We have a program we use in the older

years called You Are Strong, and

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it's very much about thinking about

having healthy friendships, 'cause

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that's really important, not holding

onto old friendships that perhaps are

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unhealthy anymore and don't give you

what you need from friends, that, that

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support and the common interests and

the things that you enjoy together,

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and how to navigate through those.

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Because one of the things that we

always say is, "Friendships change,

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and that's okay because that's also

very normal, but it can be hurtful

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and sad if it's not by choice."

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And so we teach through our You Are Strong

program skills to navigate changes in

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friendships, dialogue to approach when

there's a problem, and how to navigate

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through problems because little friendship

fires we call them, we want to put the

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fires out, not add fuel to the fire.

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So how do we do that

in a respectful manner?

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And by knowing how to approach a

situation, but also others knowing that

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that's what they're trying to achieve.

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They're trying to work through an

issue so that they can approach it

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in the same manner of listening and

wanting to overcome a problem, even if

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it's not something that, that they've

identified but their friend has.

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It really does enable them to work

through that in a really respectful and

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a com- kind and compassionate manner.

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Anthony: Yeah, I imagine that

does have a big impact because if

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everybody understands the framework

when someone approaches you- Then

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you can understand that they're

approaching under that context.

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Joanne Sharpe: Yes, that's correct, and

that's really important that everybody

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has an understanding of how to solve

their problem, but also how to receive

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someone who is approaching, trying to

problem solve through a friendship issue.

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Yeah.

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Anthony: And I imagine particularly

being an all-girls school, at

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least you don't have to worry about

boys, although ma- many of them

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would have siblings, uh, as well.

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So there is an important differentiation

between how boys and girls do mature and

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those friendships and things that go on.

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So does it make it better that

they're all, all girls together

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or does it make it more intense?

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Joanne Sharpe: Oh, I, I think

there's a bit of both probably.

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I think it's easier in that the

approaches are more similar.

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I mean, obviously everyone's, all the

girls are different and unique, but the

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aproa- the approaches are more similar.

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The, the things that are important

to girls are more similar, things

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like the, you know, their social,

their social aspect and how they

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perceive their, their friendships

and wanting to fit in and belong.

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Conscious of themselves and

how they connect with others is

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certainly different in girls.

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And so that's great, but also it can

have its challenges in that it's an

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all-girl environment, and so there's

not any kind of difference, as much of a

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difference as perhaps if boys were there.

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I personally love the all-girls

environment myself, and I have found it

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a real joy to be walking alongside the

girls proactively really talking about

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how they should have fr- have healthy

friendships and talking about how,

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how they should think and feel about

themselves in positive manners, but

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also enabling them to, you know, talk

them through those processes about how

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to deal with issues when they arrive.

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It's a real privilege.

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Anthony: How self-aware do you find

that the girls are in going through the

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various programs that you're talking

about in understanding what is going on

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for them and being able to, you know,

almost stop themselves a little bit and

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understand the impact that it's having

on them, but also those around them?

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Joanne Sharpe: I think when,

uh, when you get to the tween

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years, they are very self-aware.

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They're becoming a lot more conscious

of themselves and the way that they

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connect with others, um, and the impact

particularly on themselves when things

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aren't going the way they want to, and

also I would say when it is going well.

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Like, that idea of a healthy

friendship's really important to

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understand how they can manage

to work through to find friends.

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And I think in an all-girls school too,

there's a much more of a choice because

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there's more girls because there's

not, sort of half of them aren't boys.

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So the choice of friendships and finding

your tribe and finding those people

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you connect with is a lot greater.

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Um-

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Anthony: How easy is it for, you

know, the girls and the parents to

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have active conversations about these

things and to, to make everybody

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more self-aware and manage those

relationships and the changes?

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Joanne Sharpe: So we really try to

make sure that parents are aware

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of what we're teaching at school,

and we do that in a number of ways.

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Every second year we have actually a

You Are Strong workshop for parents

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and the girls, so it's a, a thing

that they do together, and I think

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that really raises awareness of how,

uh, what we're doing at school, but

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how parents can use that at home.

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Through our school membership of You Are

Strong, our parents all have access to

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our, the website and a membership that

they can sign up for themselves for free

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through our membership, which has a myriad

of resources about, you know, how to…

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I love, one of my favorite ones is being

the coach on, you know, coach on the side.

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So parents coaching the girls through

solving pro- their own problems

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rather than jumping in and trying

to deal with it, uh, themselves.

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So, you know, that idea of empowering

the girls to be, you know, fearless and

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out there and solving their own issues

and working towards their own goals

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that they, they would like to achieve,

the parents can be really aware of.

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We have a lot of parent workshops, and

we've actually had people in talking

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about the tweens and the te- teenager

and all that kind of thing that's out

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there by different, uh, experts and

speakers c- because we realize that

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parents need support in this area

too, especially with an ever-growing

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cha- and changing society in terms

of device use and, you know, what's

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online and all those sorts of things.

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It's great to be aware of those as,

as school, but also for parents.

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We run parenting workshops ourselves

through our counseling team that also

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address this tween stage, which p- we've

had really good feedback on as well.

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So I think educating parents so that

they're, they're equipped with the

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information and the ways of approaching

that as proven to be helpful is really

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important and, you know, just how to

keep on loving the girls and being

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their, their cheer squad is really

helpful for and reaffirming for parents.

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Anthony: Yeah.

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It's a difficult time for

parents as well, isn't it?

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Because- Yeah … the girls are changing,

and you, you move from your little baby

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to the tweens, and it is a difficult

time, and then starting to realize that

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the teens are upon, upon you and there's

changes again and, and does this sort

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of prepare for the teen years as well?

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Joanne Sharpe: Oh, absolutely.

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I think laying foundations, no

matter, you know, right from the

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birth really, is really important.

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But I suppose particularly in those

tween years as the girls' brains and

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bodies and thoughts and feelings are

changing, is a really good time to start

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to think about how do we talk about what's

going on, talking about our emotions,

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how do we cope with when we have those

heightened, emotions are heightened,

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for example, stress or disappointment or

being upset about a friendship problem.

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Having them have appropriate ways of

expressing that and outlets for the

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emotion, and we teach that at school, but

encouraging that at home and finding ways

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at home that are appropriate and helpful

for their children's really important.

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Talking about even digital citizenship

because the girls are starting to get into

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the time where they're pressuring their

parents to be on all sorts of different

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devices and particularly social media.

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Even with the government ban in

place, I doubt that the girls will

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stop asking and wanting those things.

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And it just takes one student to say,

"Oh, you know, I've got this," and

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then, you know, it puts pressure on

girls and others and the parents to

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look at that and agree to it, which

many parents don't want to, but it is

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a, a source of tension often at home.

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And having conflict resolution skills

is really important, too, and parents

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being able to talk that through.

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But enabling girls to resolve and

problem solve rather than jumping

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in and solving the problem for

them, I think is really important.

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So again, that idea of the coach on

the side coaching them through things.

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It's, I think, a really good analogy

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Anthony: I just wanted to ask you

as well, we talked a lot about the

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parents and the kids, but what about

from a teacher's point of view?

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What do they need to be aware of, or

how do they help, you know, everyone

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that's, the kids particularly,

navigate these tween years?

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Joanne Sharpe: And, and we

do that in several ways.

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We do do some surveys here at school

so that we can try and find out what

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the girls are thinking and feeling,

particularly in the wellbeing space.

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We do it in the learning space as

well, but in the well- wellbeing

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space, um, opportunities for them

to be able to say if they're having

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problems with anyone that they maybe

haven't identified or brought forward

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first so that we can check in on them.

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And just again, we just ask

them, "Do you need any help?

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Are you okay with this?"

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And then we have a- another

survey which just checks in on

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how they approach handling things.

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So it's a more of agree or disagree.

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"I agree that I can, you know, I

have good anger management skills,"

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for example, or, "I disagree."

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And so we can look at the results of

those and then target our pastoral

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care programs to meet the needs of

the girls that are in front of us.

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So that changes from year to year,

and each group can be very different.

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Then we have girls who are

quite happy to come forward to

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teachers and talk about issues.

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But we're very much on

a proactive approach.

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Our pastoral care lessons target

the social emotional competencies.

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So self-awareness, so how am I feeling?

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Self-management, how do

I manage those feelings?

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Social awareness, how do other

people feel and think and react?

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And social management, so how

do I manage the dynamics there?

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And then responsible decision-making.

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So those five competencies we actually

track through from our youngest years

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right through the school, into the

senior school as well actually, to

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ensure that we're developing those

competencies at an age-appropriate level.

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And it's, you know, very important in

those tween years that they're supported

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to be able to manage themselves and

manage their social interactions as well.

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Anthony: And just to wrap things

up, I want to put this in the

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context of the tweens themselves

and see if you can answer for them.

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Dare to be more, how do you put

that in the context of what it

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might mean in the tween years?

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Is that something that is, can even

be something they can think about

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because there's so much going on?

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Joanne Sharpe: I think they're always,

uh, tween years is a- always a time

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where they're exploring what's next.

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You know, they're- they've got

a, a natural urge as they're

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developing to explore more and

more of their capabilities.

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So we very much encourage that,

support them, but knowing they're,

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that it's okay to make mistakes.

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It's okay not to get it

right the first time.

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It's okay to try something and

then think, "Mm, that's not for me.

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I've got something else to do."

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And we offer so many different

activities and interests outside

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of just even the school day.

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There's lots within the school day,

but outside of the school day, that

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there's really something for everyone.

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So it's, uh, enabling them to have

those opportunities and supporting

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them through that, but knowing that

there's the adults and people around

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them at school and at home that are

there to support them no matter what.

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Anthony: Fantastic.

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Thank you so much, Joanne.

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It's very insightful, and it is a

difficult period for everyone involved.

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But it's so great to know that there

are so many programs and opportunities

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for the girls and for the parents

to make it as easy and as self-aware

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as possible in that period of time.

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Joanne Sharpe: Yeah.

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Thank you.

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Well, I think our girls are worth it.

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: 00:16:55

Speaker: Thank you for

joining us on Dare To Be More.

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: 00:16:57

If you enjoyed this episode, please

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: 00:16:58

Anthony: subscribe wherever you get your

podcasts so you never miss an episode.

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: 00:17:02

Your likes and comments also

help more families discover

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: 00:17:05

these valuable conversations.

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: 00:17:07

For more information about MLC school

and their approach to girls' education,

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: 00:17:11

visit their website at mlcsyd.nsw.edu.au.

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: 00:17:16

Check out the show notes

for more information.